Discussion:
Why we should nationalise our airports
(too old to reply)
Joe Curry
2010-12-21 18:52:44 UTC
Permalink
Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk

Nick Clark

The privatisation of the state-owned British Airport Authority (BAA),
we were told, would ensure that "better services are provided for all
airline passengers".

Full Story

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/dec/21/nationalise-airports-baa
pete
2010-12-21 19:15:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Curry
Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk
Nick Clark
The privatisation of the state-owned British Airport Authority (BAA),
we were told, would ensure that "better services are provided for all
airline passengers".
Full Story
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/dec/21/nationalise-airports-baa
Because nationalisation has been such a success every other time
it's been tried? <cough>British Rail<cough>
--
http://thisreallyismyhost.99k.org/2120101219114924471.php
William Black
2010-12-21 19:17:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete
Post by Joe Curry
Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk
Nick Clark
The privatisation of the state-owned British Airport Authority (BAA),
we were told, would ensure that "better services are provided for all
airline passengers".
Full Story
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/dec/21/nationalise-airports-baa
Because nationalisation has been such a success every other time
it's been tried?<cough>British Rail<cough>
Can you think of any possible way in which Heathrow could be worse?

We might as well have the profits.
--
William Black

Free men have open minds
If you want loyalty, buy a dog...
Roland Perry
2010-12-21 19:33:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Black
Can you think of any possible way in which Heathrow could be worse?
Yes, no public funds to build T5 and refurbish T2.
--
Roland Perry
pete
2010-12-21 22:06:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Black
Post by pete
Post by Joe Curry
Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk
Nick Clark
The privatisation of the state-owned British Airport Authority (BAA),
we were told, would ensure that "better services are provided for all
airline passengers".
Full Story
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/dec/21/nationalise-airports-baa
Because nationalisation has been such a success every other time
it's been tried?<cough>British Rail<cough>
Can you think of any possible way in which Heathrow could be worse?
It could be owned by Disney - and play the piped muzak you hear in
their shops 24*7
Post by William Black
We might as well have the profits.
If the government owned it there wouldn't be any profits - just
a brand new army of bureaurocrats slowing the entry/exit process
even more.
--
http://thisreallyismyhost.99k.org/2120101219152624583.php
William Black
2010-12-21 22:29:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete
Post by William Black
Post by pete
Post by Joe Curry
Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk
Nick Clark
The privatisation of the state-owned British Airport Authority (BAA),
we were told, would ensure that "better services are provided for all
airline passengers".
Full Story
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/dec/21/nationalise-airports-baa
Because nationalisation has been such a success every other time
it's been tried?<cough>British Rail<cough>
Can you think of any possible way in which Heathrow could be worse?
It could be owned by Disney - and play the piped muzak you hear in
their shops 24*7
Post by William Black
We might as well have the profits.
If the government owned it there wouldn't be any profits - just
a brand new army of bureaurocrats slowing the entry/exit process
even more.
They already do that.

I believe the Immigration and Borders Agency are checking exit papers now.
--
William Black

Free men have open minds
If you want loyalty, buy a dog...
Mizter T
2010-12-22 10:09:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Black
Post by pete
If the government owned it there wouldn't be any profits - just
a brand new army of bureaurocrats slowing the entry/exit process
even more.
They already do that.
I believe the Immigration and Borders Agency are checking exit papers now.
No, they're not.
William Black
2010-12-22 12:33:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mizter T
Post by William Black
Post by pete
If the government owned it there wouldn't be any profits - just
a brand new army of bureaurocrats slowing the entry/exit process
even more.
They already do that.
I believe the Immigration and Borders Agency are checking exit papers now.
No, they're not.
Oh?

They were supposed to start in November...

Anyone know if they just cancelled it and forgot about it when the new
government got in?

It was all about checking that those evil foreign students actually left
the country...
--
William Black

Free men have open minds
If you want loyalty, buy a dog...
tim....
2010-12-21 21:07:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete
Post by Joe Curry
Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk
Nick Clark
The privatisation of the state-owned British Airport Authority (BAA),
we were told, would ensure that "better services are provided for all
airline passengers".
Full Story
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/dec/21/nationalise-airports-baa
Because nationalisation has been such a success every other time
it's been tried? <cough>British Rail<cough>
apart from the dirty-old trains. In what way was BR worse that the
privatised rabble that we have now?

tim
Roland Perry
2010-12-21 21:23:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim....
apart from the dirty-old trains. In what way was BR worse that the
privatised rabble that we have now?
They had a different and more pernicious kind of "take it or leave it"
attitude.
--
Roland Perry
William Black
2010-12-21 22:30:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim....
Post by pete
Post by Joe Curry
Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk
Nick Clark
The privatisation of the state-owned British Airport Authority (BAA),
we were told, would ensure that "better services are provided for all
airline passengers".
Full Story
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/dec/21/nationalise-airports-baa
Because nationalisation has been such a success every other time
it's been tried?<cough>British Rail<cough>
apart from the dirty-old trains. In what way was BR worse that the
privatised rabble that we have now?
Well...


They weren't.

It took privatisation to make British Rail a sort of sadly missed old
auntie.
--
William Black

Free men have open minds
If you want loyalty, buy a dog...
Mister Niceguy
2010-12-22 10:38:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Black
Post by tim....
Post by pete
Post by Joe Curry
Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk
Nick Clark
The privatisation of the state-owned British Airport Authority
(BAA), we were told, would ensure that "better services are
provided for all airline passengers".
Full Story
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/dec/21/nationalise-
airp
Post by William Black
Post by tim....
Post by pete
Post by Joe Curry
orts-baa
Because nationalisation has been such a success every other time
it's been tried?<cough>British Rail<cough>
apart from the dirty-old trains. In what way was BR worse that the
privatised rabble that we have now?
Well...
They weren't.
It took privatisation to make British Rail a sort of sadly missed old
auntie.
Yes, the BR fare system was more logical than the fragmented thing we
have now, and the techniques required now to get the best prices.

Have to say trains are more punctual now. But still too overcrowded. A
Virgin guy said earlier they WEREN'T ALLOWED to add more carriages.
They have them sitting idle but their franchise didn't let them hook
them to the train (or something like that).
tim....
2010-12-22 11:29:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mister Niceguy
Post by William Black
Post by tim....
Post by pete
Post by Joe Curry
Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk
Nick Clark
The privatisation of the state-owned British Airport Authority
(BAA), we were told, would ensure that "better services are
provided for all airline passengers".
Full Story
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/dec/21/nationalise-
airp
Post by William Black
Post by tim....
Post by pete
Post by Joe Curry
orts-baa
Because nationalisation has been such a success every other time
it's been tried?<cough>British Rail<cough>
apart from the dirty-old trains. In what way was BR worse that the
privatised rabble that we have now?
Well...
They weren't.
It took privatisation to make British Rail a sort of sadly missed old
auntie.
Yes, the BR fare system was more logical than the fragmented thing we
have now, and the techniques required now to get the best prices.
Have to say trains are more punctual now. But still too overcrowded. A
Virgin guy said earlier they WEREN'T ALLOWED to add more carriages.
No, they WEREN'T ALLOWED to rip the Government off in return for adding the
extra carriages that the government wanted added, so the government said
"OK, we'll do without them then".
Post by Mister Niceguy
They have them sitting idle but their franchise didn't let them hook
them to the train (or something like that).
They have yet to be built. HMG wasn't that stupid.

tim
Roland Perry
2010-12-22 11:54:15 UTC
Permalink
A Virgin guy said earlier they WEREN'T ALLOWED to add more carriages.
From a purely logistics point of view, you can't just bung another
carriage into the middle of one of their trains. But that's only part of
the reason.
--
Roland Perry
Joe Curry
2010-12-23 09:25:00 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 22 Dec 2010 11:16:10 -0000, "Clive"
I'm not too bothered about trains myself but it seems obvious to me that the
old BR was an inefficient dinosaur and rail travellers are miles better off
nowadays. This mirrors the airline industry which is also far better at
serving the public now than it was in the 70's and 80's.
Pity about BAA's airport monopoly then?
Roland Perry
2010-12-23 10:45:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Curry
I'm not too bothered about trains myself but it seems obvious to me that the
old BR was an inefficient dinosaur and rail travellers are miles better off
nowadays. This mirrors the airline industry which is also far better at
serving the public now than it was in the 70's and 80's.
Pity about BAA's airport monopoly then?
BAA's privatisation wasn't as effective as BA's (yes, the airline was
even worse than now), but with BAA being split up we can see some
definite improvements. Gatwick has better snow clearing equipment, for
example, and they've been in new hands a year now.
--
Roland Perry
Joe Curry
2010-12-23 18:08:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Joe Curry
Pity about BAA's airport monopoly then?
BAA's privatisation wasn't as effective as BA's (yes, the airline was
even worse than now), but with BAA being split up we can see some
definite improvements. Gatwick has better snow clearing equipment, for
example, and they've been in new hands a year now.
BAA's Scottish monopoly should be addressed.
dagspot
2010-12-23 19:37:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Curry
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Joe Curry
Pity about BAA's airport monopoly then?
BAA's privatisation wasn't as effective as BA's (yes, the airline was
even worse than now), but with BAA being split up we can see some
definite improvements. Gatwick has better snow clearing equipment, for
example, and they've been in new hands a year now.
BAA's Scottish monopoly should be addressed.
And your BAA breakup desire is what exactly,.....? we've never quite
been sure
jp01
2010-12-26 18:54:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Curry
I'm not too bothered about trains myself but it seems obvious to me that the
old BR was an inefficient dinosaur and rail travellers are miles better off
nowadays. This mirrors the airline industry which is also far better at
serving the public now than it was in the 70's and 80's.
Pity about BAA's airport monopoly then?
BAA's privatisation wasn't as effective as BA's (yes, the airline was even
worse than now), but with BAA being split up we can see some definite
improvements. Gatwick has better snow clearing equipment, for example, and
they've been in new hands a year now.
--
Ah yes that brilliant effort to clear two miles of runway of a foot of snow

took 5 days.
Roland Perry
2010-12-26 21:53:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by jp01
Post by Joe Curry
Pity about BAA's airport monopoly then?
BAA's privatisation wasn't as effective as BA's (yes, the airline was even
worse than now), but with BAA being split up we can see some definite
improvements. Gatwick has better snow clearing equipment, for example, and
they've been in new hands a year now.
Ah yes that brilliant effort to clear two miles of runway of a foot of snow
took 5 days.
Must be a different Gatwick - closed for two days in the early December
snow; but more to the point only half a day in the more recent snow.
--
Roland Perry
Joe Curry
2010-12-23 09:31:42 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 22 Dec 2010 10:38:46 +0000 (UTC), Mister Niceguy
Post by Mister Niceguy
Have to say trains are more punctual now. But still too overcrowded. A
Virgin guy said earlier they WEREN'T ALLOWED to add more carriages.
They have them sitting idle but their franchise didn't let them hook
them to the train (or something like that).
Even when platform lengths permitted?
Roland Perry
2010-12-23 10:48:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Curry
Post by Mister Niceguy
Have to say trains are more punctual now. But still too overcrowded. A
Virgin guy said earlier they WEREN'T ALLOWED to add more carriages.
They have them sitting idle but their franchise didn't let them hook
them to the train (or something like that).
Even when platform lengths permitted?
It's nothing to do with platform lengths. The main issue here is that
the modern trains are very complex with services spread along the train.
You can't just shut an additional carriage in the middle. The DfT
rejected Virgin's quote for project managing the insertion of the new
carriages, and are waiting until the franchise is re-let.
--
Roland Perry
Mizter T
2010-12-23 11:35:55 UTC
Permalink
[snip]
It's nothing to do with platform lengths. The main issue here is that the
modern trains are very complex with services spread along the train. You
can't just shut an additional carriage in the middle. The DfT rejected
Virgin's quote for project managing the insertion of the new carriages,
and are waiting until the franchise is re-let.
That's not quite accurate - a special purpose vehicle, 'Virgin Rail
Projects', actually won the tender from the DfT to manage lengthening 31 of
the 53 existing Pendolino trains from 9-carriage to 11-carriage (i.e.
addition of two extra carriages), but separately from this Virgin offered to
finance and extend the remaining 22 trains to 11-car themselves in exchange
for an extension of their West Coast franchise (which is set to expire in
March 2012) - this has been rejected by the DfT.

(Plus on top of this there are four brand new 11-car Pendolino trains being
built, but these will not be available to Virgin Trains, at least not under
the current West Coast franchise.)
Joe Curry
2010-12-22 10:21:41 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 21:07:59 -0000, "tim...."
Post by tim....
apart from the dirty-old trains. In what way was BR worse that the
privatised rabble that we have now?
It has to be the sandwiches? :-)
Windmill
2010-12-23 22:14:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Curry
Post by tim....
apart from the dirty-old trains. In what way was BR worse that the
privatised rabble that we have now?
It has to be the sandwiches? :-)
Nah, their egg-and-cress was quite good. They got the ratio right.
--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
***@Nonetel.com @ O n e t e l
. c o m
Windmill
2010-12-23 22:11:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete
Because nationalisation has been such a success every other time
it's been tried? <cough>British Rail<cough>
A private company (we're repeatedly told) has as its first duty the
welfare of its shareholders.
So if they privatise the prisons, the prison corporation would have to
do its utmost to cause inmates to quickly re-offend.
If they privatise the airports, I suppose the owners would have to lock
in delayed passengers, raise the price of sandwiches, and impose a
'late fee'.
--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
***@Nonetel.com @ O n e t e l
. c o m
Mizter T
2010-12-22 10:10:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Curry
Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk
Nick Clark
The privatisation of the state-owned British Airport Authority (BAA),
we were told, would ensure that "better services are provided for all
airline passengers".
Full Story
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/dec/21/nationalise-airports-baa
Perhaps worth noting that the author is the co-founder of the Campaign for
Public Ownership.
Joe Curry
2010-12-23 09:30:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mizter T
Perhaps worth noting that the author is the co-founder of the Campaign for
Public Ownership.
There is always an angle..
Mizter T
2010-12-23 11:36:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Curry
Post by Mizter T
Perhaps worth noting that the author is the co-founder of the Campaign for
Public Ownership.
There is always an angle..
Indeed.
Joe Curry
2010-12-23 18:09:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mizter T
Post by Joe Curry
There is always an angle..
Indeed.
And not always on the pool table. :-)
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