Discussion:
Un-refunded air taxes
(too old to reply)
Joe Curry
2011-08-12 13:08:18 UTC
Permalink
APD Refund ATAB

Thank you for your contact. We are very keen to do something about un-refunded air taxes.
If you have booked a flight out of the UK anytime since 1994 you will have paid Air Passenger Duty
tax (APD) and if you have NOT flown for WHATEVER REASON you are entitled to get that tax back. The
airline only has to pay it to the Government if you actually get on the plane. If you don?t, it?s
yours to claim back. It?s a Government tax but some airlines have treated it as an additional
revenue stream.
ATAB has joined force with London law firm Barker Gillette and we intend to take the airlines to
court to refund the millions of pounds of YOUR money that they have been hanging on to.
Here?s what you need you to do; In the first place we need some basic information to see how many
of you want to proceed. If we get enough people to sign up we?ll then have to ask you for some
additional information.
Please go to http://www.atab.org.uk/action-now/reclaim-your-taxes/claims-against-uk-airlines/ to
fill out the form.
If you have done this already thank you.
If you are about to do it Thank you and we will keep you posted on our progress.
The more people who join the better our chances, so do share this with family and friends.

Your Sincerely,

The ATAB Team.
JohnT
2011-08-12 15:47:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Curry
APD Refund ATAB
Thank you for your contact. We are very keen to do something about un-refunded air taxes.
If you have booked a flight out of the UK anytime since 1994 you will have
paid Air Passenger Duty
tax (APD) and if you have NOT flown for WHATEVER REASON you are entitled
to get that tax back. The
airline only has to pay it to the Government if you actually get on the
plane. If you don?t, it?s
yours to claim back. It?s a Government tax but some airlines have treated
it as an additional
revenue stream.
ATAB has joined force with London law firm Barker Gillette and we intend
to take the airlines to
court to refund the millions of pounds of YOUR money that they have been hanging on to.
Here?s what you need you to do; In the first place we need some basic
information to see how many
of you want to proceed. If we get enough people to sign up we?ll then have
to ask you for some
additional information.
Please go to
http://www.atab.org.uk/action-now/reclaim-your-taxes/claims-against-uk-airlines/
to
fill out the form.
If you have done this already thank you.
If you are about to do it Thank you and we will keep you posted on our progress.
The more people who join the better our chances, so do share this with family and friends.
I have had to cancel flights with British Airways on several occasions and
the APD has been refunded to me promptly.

It is my understanding that Ryanair do refund the taxes but that the service
fee they charge is equal to or in excess of the amount refunded. The Easyjet
website suggests that an administration fee of £30 would be charged (per
person, but it is not clear whether that would be for both legs of a
return/round-trip flight).

And how much woulld ATAB charge as an upfront fee?
--
JohnT
Joe Curry
2011-08-12 18:28:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnT
I have had to cancel flights with British Airways on several occasions and
the APD has been refunded to me promptly.
Did you pay a fee? Did you claim go through a Premium Rate phone line?
Post by JohnT
It is my understanding that Ryanair do refund the taxes but that the service
fee they charge is equal to or in excess of the amount refunded. The Easyjet
website suggests that an administration fee of £30 would be charged (per
person, but it is not clear whether that would be for both legs of a
return/round-trip flight).
It's not just airlines.. Online CRS systems are equally guilty.
Post by JohnT
And how much woulld ATAB charge as an upfront fee?
According to their website? Nil....
JohnT
2011-08-12 19:22:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Curry
Post by JohnT
I have had to cancel flights with British Airways on several occasions and
the APD has been refunded to me promptly.
Did you pay a fee? Did you claim go through a Premium Rate phone line?
No. No.
--
JohnT
Joe Curry
2011-08-13 12:35:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnT
Post by Joe Curry
Did you pay a fee? Did you claim go through a Premium Rate phone line?
No. No.
A pat on the back for BA...
Graham Harrison
2011-08-15 22:34:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Curry
It's not just airlines.. Online CRS systems are equally guilty.
Rubbish.
Joe Curry
2011-08-16 11:15:07 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@bt.com>, ***@remove.btinternet.com
says...
Post by Graham Harrison
Post by Joe Curry
It's not just airlines.. Online CRS systems are equally guilty.
Rubbish.
I know of cases that pax who have booked via CRS not get taxes refunded
when flights were not taken...Even though a claim was made...

I'm sure others can vouch for that Edward...
Joe Curry
2011-08-16 11:19:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Curry
I know of cases that pax who have booked via CRS not get taxes refunded
when flights were not taken...Even though a claim was made...
I'm sure others can vouch for that Edward...
I intended to include this link it be relevant.
http://www.airtaxrefund.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=main
JohnT
2011-08-16 12:11:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Curry
Post by Joe Curry
I know of cases that pax who have booked via CRS not get taxes refunded
when flights were not taken...Even though a claim was made...
I'm sure others can vouch for that Edward...
I intended to include this link it be relevant.
http://www.airtaxrefund.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=main
The charge a fee of "€5 per person per application". The chances of getting
any money back from Ryanair are rather slight. So it really seems to me that
it is not worth any further expenditure.
--
JohnT
dagspot
2011-08-16 22:11:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Curry
Post by Joe Curry
I know of cases that pax who have booked via CRS not get taxes refunded
when flights were not taken...Even though a claim was made...
I'm sure others can vouch for that Edward...
I intended to include this link it be relevant.
Why start now, its never bothered you before....
Graham Harrison
2011-08-16 13:33:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Curry
says...
Post by Graham Harrison
Post by Joe Curry
It's not just airlines.. Online CRS systems are equally guilty.
Rubbish.
I know of cases that pax who have booked via CRS not get taxes refunded
when flights were not taken...Even though a claim was made...
I'm sure others can vouch for that Edward...
OK, define the term CRS for me. It's possible you and I think they are
different.
Graham Harrison
2011-08-17 21:21:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graham Harrison
Post by Joe Curry
says...
Post by Graham Harrison
Post by Joe Curry
It's not just airlines.. Online CRS systems are equally guilty.
Rubbish.
I know of cases that pax who have booked via CRS not get taxes refunded
when flights were not taken...Even though a claim was made...
I'm sure others can vouch for that Edward...
OK, define the term CRS for me. It's possible you and I think they are
different.
OK, If you won't, I will.

My definition is Computer Reservations System. Now, the system doesn't
make the decision to refund the passenger (assuming that the CRS has been
programmed to handle refunds - that might be a manual process). Depending
on circumstances there will be a person sitting in front of a screen
operating the CRS or there may be a web page placed in front of the CRS but
even that has to be programmed by a human who will be responsible for
whether the refund is granted, or not.

But, in the modern travel industry, the CRS is usually the system used by
the airline for reservations, fare quotation and ticketing. If an agency
is involved then they will usually be using a GDS (Global Distribution
System) such as Sabre or Galileo. But the thing about an operator or web
page still applies.

Roland Perry
2011-08-13 07:39:26 UTC
Permalink
The Easyjet website suggests that an administration fee of £30 would be
charged (per person, but it is not clear whether that would be for both
legs of a return/round-trip flight).
Isn't the APD only charged on outward flights. On the return flight it
would be the equivalent in the originating country (Schiphol had a
similar tax for a while, but scrapped it after the credit crunch).
--
Roland Perry
JohnT
2011-08-13 08:43:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
The Easyjet website suggests that an administration fee of £30 would be
charged (per person, but it is not clear whether that would be for both
legs of a return/round-trip flight).
Isn't the APD only charged on outward flights. On the return flight it
would be the equivalent in the originating country (Schiphol had a similar
tax for a while, but scrapped it after the credit crunch).
Yes, of course, for the majority of Easyjet flights. But they do fly quite a
few UK Domestic routes too.
--
JohnT
Joe Curry
2011-08-13 12:38:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnT
Post by Roland Perry
Isn't the APD only charged on outward flights. On the return flight it
would be the equivalent in the originating country (Schiphol had a similar
tax for a while, but scrapped it after the credit crunch).
Yes, of course, for the majority of Easyjet flights. But they do fly quite a
few UK Domestic routes too.
I lost our twice with Easyjet due family circumstances.
Joe Curry
2011-08-13 12:36:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Isn't the APD only charged on outward flights. On the return flight it
would be the equivalent in the originating country (Schiphol had a
similar tax for a while, but scrapped it after the credit crunch).
Anyone have a breakdown?
dagspot
2011-08-13 12:54:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Curry
Anyone have a breakdown?
I would have thought if youve not already, its in the post
Roland Perry
2011-08-13 13:29:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Curry
Post by Roland Perry
Isn't the APD only charged on outward flights. On the return flight it
would be the equivalent in the originating country (Schiphol had a
similar tax for a while, but scrapped it after the credit crunch).
Anyone have a breakdown?
KLM from Birmingham to Amsterdam return:

Ticket price 15,00
Booking fee 10,00
Fuel surcharge 60,00
Passenger service charge 14,52
Passenger service charge 14,47
Security charge 12,94
UK air passenger duty 12,69
Netherlands noise isolation charge 2,00

Price (per passenger) 141,62
--
Roland Perry
tim....
2011-08-13 18:03:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Joe Curry
Post by Roland Perry
Isn't the APD only charged on outward flights. On the return flight it
would be the equivalent in the originating country (Schiphol had a
similar tax for a while, but scrapped it after the credit crunch).
Anyone have a breakdown?
Ticket price 15,00
Booking fee 10,00
Fuel surcharge 60,00
Passenger service charge 14,52
Passenger service charge 14,47
Security charge 12,94
UK air passenger duty 12,69
Netherlands noise isolation charge 2,00
Price (per passenger) 141,62
Which IMHO proves that claims that APD stops people from flying, is a lie

tim
Roland Perry
2011-08-13 22:12:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim....
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Joe Curry
Post by Roland Perry
Isn't the APD only charged on outward flights. On the return flight it
would be the equivalent in the originating country (Schiphol had a
similar tax for a while, but scrapped it after the credit crunch).
Anyone have a breakdown?
Ticket price 15,00
Booking fee 10,00
Fuel surcharge 60,00
Passenger service charge 14,52
Passenger service charge 14,47
Security charge 12,94
UK air passenger duty 12,69
Netherlands noise isolation charge 2,00
Price (per passenger) 141,62
Which IMHO proves that claims that APD stops people from flying, is a lie
It's the £120 for destinations between 2-4k miles which stops people
flying. (Almost £500 for a family of four).

The ticket above would be £24 now, which could double the price of many
tickets on a low cost carrier.
--
Roland Perry
tim....
2011-08-14 13:01:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by tim....
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Joe Curry
Post by Roland Perry
Isn't the APD only charged on outward flights. On the return flight it
would be the equivalent in the originating country (Schiphol had a
similar tax for a while, but scrapped it after the credit crunch).
Anyone have a breakdown?
Ticket price 15,00
Booking fee 10,00
Fuel surcharge 60,00
Passenger service charge 14,52
Passenger service charge 14,47
Security charge 12,94
UK air passenger duty 12,69
Netherlands noise isolation charge 2,00
Price (per passenger) 141,62
Which IMHO proves that claims that APD stops people from flying, is a lie
It's the £120 for destinations between 2-4k miles which stops people
flying. (Almost £500 for a family of four).
The ticket above would be £24 now, which could double the price of many
tickets on a low cost carrier.
They're the rates for first class.

Economy class is still 12 and 60

tim
Roland Perry
2011-08-14 14:01:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim....
They're the rates for first class.
And Business Class.
Post by tim....
Economy class is still 12 and 60
It is.
--
Roland Perry
tim....
2011-08-14 15:23:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by tim....
They're the rates for first class.
And Business Class.
And premium economy
Post by Roland Perry
Post by tim....
Economy class is still 12 and 60
It is.
So why quote the other price for a family holiday then?

tim
Roland Perry
2011-08-14 17:00:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim....
Post by Roland Perry
Post by tim....
Economy class is still 12 and 60
It is.
So why quote the other price for a family holiday then?
Because I was misinformed (press reports based on Premium Economy
pricing). But some people obviously do fly on holiday in Premium
Economy, because otherwise there wouldn't be so much of it on holiday
routes. The last time I flew long haul in Business Class, everyone else
in the cabin seemed to be on an OAP's package tour.
--
Roland Perry
Graeme Wall
2011-08-14 19:27:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by tim....
Post by Roland Perry
Post by tim....
Economy class is still 12 and 60
It is.
So why quote the other price for a family holiday then?
Because I was misinformed (press reports based on Premium Economy
pricing). But some people obviously do fly on holiday in Premium
Economy, because otherwise there wouldn't be so much of it on holiday
routes.
I do on overnight flights.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at <www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail>
tim....
2011-08-15 12:37:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by tim....
Post by Roland Perry
Post by tim....
Economy class is still 12 and 60
It is.
So why quote the other price for a family holiday then?
Because I was misinformed (press reports based on Premium Economy
pricing). But some people obviously do fly on holiday in Premium Economy,
because otherwise there wouldn't be so much of it on holiday
Obviously, but people prepared to pay 300 pounds for a bigger seat aren't
going to be deterred by an extra 60 pounds tax

tim
Roland Perry
2011-08-15 13:28:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim....
Post by Roland Perry
Post by tim....
So why quote the other price for a family holiday then?
Because I was misinformed (press reports based on Premium Economy
pricing). But some people obviously do fly on holiday in Premium Economy,
because otherwise there wouldn't be so much of it on holiday
Obviously, but people prepared to pay 300 pounds for a bigger seat aren't
going to be deterred by an extra 60 pounds tax
I disagree, but as your mission seems to be to contradict everything I
say. Let's leave it there.
--
Roland Perry
Joe Curry
2011-08-14 11:24:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim....
Which IMHO proves that claims that APD stops people from flying, is a lie
The various surcharges proving there are a lot of snouts in the trough..
dagspot
2011-08-14 12:00:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Curry
Post by tim....
Which IMHO proves that claims that APD stops people from flying, is a lie
The various surcharges proving there are a lot of snouts in the trough..
...some know all about "pig" ignorance... eh Brazzy Brigger Braeside ?
tim....
2011-08-14 13:02:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Curry
Post by tim....
Which IMHO proves that claims that APD stops people from flying, is a lie
The various surcharges proving there are a lot of snouts in the trough..
More than half the surcharges is "fuel levy", that isn't a surcharge it's
part of the normal costs of operating an airline!

tim
Joe Curry
2011-08-14 11:20:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Ticket price 15,00
Booking fee 10,00
Fuel surcharge 60,00
Passenger service charge 14,52
Passenger service charge 14,47
Security charge 12,94
UK air passenger duty 12,69
Netherlands noise isolation charge 2,00
Price (per passenger) 141,62
In theory all but the ticket price and booking fee would be
recoverable?
Roland Perry
2011-08-14 12:26:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Curry
Post by Roland Perry
Ticket price 15,00
Booking fee 10,00
Fuel surcharge 60,00
Passenger service charge 14,52
Passenger service charge 14,47
Security charge 12,94
UK air passenger duty 12,69
Netherlands noise isolation charge 2,00
Price (per passenger) 141,62
In theory all but the ticket price and booking fee would be
recoverable?
You'd have to look at the airline's T&C, but in principle I expect they
say that the fuel surcharge is not a government tax. The airport charges
neither, perhaps.
--
Roland Perry
tim....
2011-08-14 13:03:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Joe Curry
Post by Roland Perry
Ticket price 15,00
Booking fee 10,00
Fuel surcharge 60,00
Passenger service charge 14,52
Passenger service charge 14,47
Security charge 12,94
UK air passenger duty 12,69
Netherlands noise isolation charge 2,00
Price (per passenger) 141,62
In theory all but the ticket price and booking fee would be
recoverable?
You'd have to look at the airline's T&C, but in principle I expect they
say that the fuel surcharge is not a government tax. The airport charges
neither, perhaps.
but the latter is a cost that they (often) won't have to pay if you don't
turn up

tim
Roland Perry
2011-08-14 14:02:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim....
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Joe Curry
Post by Roland Perry
Ticket price 15,00
Booking fee 10,00
Fuel surcharge 60,00
Passenger service charge 14,52
Passenger service charge 14,47
Security charge 12,94
UK air passenger duty 12,69
Netherlands noise isolation charge 2,00
Price (per passenger) 141,62
In theory all but the ticket price and booking fee would be
recoverable?
You'd have to look at the airline's T&C, but in principle I expect they
say that the fuel surcharge is not a government tax. The airport charges
neither, perhaps.
but the latter is a cost that they (often) won't have to pay if you don't
turn up
Part of the bargain you make when accepting a very cheap fare is some
restrictions in the flexibility of what you can do with it. Like change
the date or cancel. It's therefore entirely possible that despite the
itemisation you have agreed that everything except the government tax is
non-refundable.
--
Roland Perry
Joe Curry
2011-08-15 16:52:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim....
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Joe Curry
In theory all but the ticket price and booking fee would be
recoverable?
You'd have to look at the airline's T&C, but in principle I expect they
say that the fuel surcharge is not a government tax. The airport charges
neither, perhaps.
but the latter is a cost that they (often) won't have to pay if you don't
turn up
One would assume...
dagspot
2011-08-15 16:53:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Curry
Post by tim....
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Joe Curry
In theory all but the ticket price and booking fee would be
recoverable?
You'd have to look at the airline's T&C, but in principle I expect they
say that the fuel surcharge is not a government tax. The airport charges
neither, perhaps.
but the latter is a cost that they (often) won't have to pay if you don't
turn up
One would assume...
Your assumptions have got you into trouble before. We like FACTS and
links in here.
Joe Curry
2011-08-16 11:09:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by dagspot
Post by Joe Curry
One would assume...
Your assumptions have got you into trouble before. We like FACTS and
links in here.
A link to 'getting me in trouble'?
I should remind you that usenet is for serious debate among like-minded
individuals..your tone suggests you have a problem with that..
dagspot
2011-08-16 22:10:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Curry
your tone suggests you have a problem with that..
Youve only just realised....? Theres only one problem in here, havent
you been listening to the majority ?
Joe Curry
2011-08-15 16:51:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Joe Curry
In theory all but the ticket price and booking fee would be
recoverable?
You'd have to look at the airline's T&C, but in principle I expect they
say that the fuel surcharge is not a government tax. The airport charges
neither, perhaps.
Which could be refunded if the flight wasn't taken Roland?
Roland Perry
2011-08-15 20:14:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Curry
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Joe Curry
In theory all but the ticket price and booking fee would be
recoverable?
You'd have to look at the airline's T&C, but in principle I expect they
say that the fuel surcharge is not a government tax. The airport charges
neither, perhaps.
Which could be refunded if the flight wasn't taken Roland?
If they've sold you a cheap ticket on the basis that it's not
refundable, then no.
--
Roland Perry
Joe Curry
2011-08-16 11:11:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Joe Curry
Which could be refunded if the flight wasn't taken Roland?
If they've sold you a cheap ticket on the basis that it's not
refundable, then no.
So Air Taxes might also be included in that basis or would that be illegal?
Roland Perry
2011-08-16 12:37:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Curry
Post by Joe Curry
Which could be refunded if the flight wasn't taken Roland?
If they've sold you a cheap ticket on the basis that it's not
refundable, then no.
So Air Taxes might also be included in that basis or would that be illegal?
<http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/ff76190a-e5bc-11db-9fcf-000b5df10621.html#axz
z1VC753nIX>

Is a plausible summary of the situation... not a legal requirement but
some airlines may do it, and can charge an admin fee.

A more interesting question is this: who gets to keep any unrefunded
fees? Does the airline pocket them, or are they paid to the
airport/government regardless.

An associated question would be: do airlines pay the tax, fees and
charges based on the number travelling on the day, or on the number of
tickets sold. If you are a no-show on the day, then few low-costs will
resell the seat (to a standby passenger). On the other hand the full
fare airlines have a better chance of doing that, and are also more
likely to refund the tax.
--
Roland Perry
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