Heathrow PRT pods now in service at last?

[Recliner]

I've not noticed anything posted here, but it looks like the
much-delayed Heathrow pods are finally in service (or are they
technically still on trial?). Anyone here tried them yet?

Here's a recent video I came across:

It looks like a rather slow
and bumpy ride, but still better than the previous bus, and the views
are good. You even get delays before journeys start, just like the Tube:

I notice they have right-hand running, despite being from a UK company.
This initial system isn't exactly ambitious, with very few stops (I
think two in the car park, and one at the terminal).

[Roland Perry]

Post by Recliner
I've not noticed anything posted here, but it looks like the
much-delayed Heathrow pods are finally in service (or are they
technically still on trial?). Anyone here tried them yet?

Are they free, and don't require an airline ticket? If so I'll try them
out next time I'm at the airport.

[Recliner]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner
I've not noticed anything posted here, but it looks like the
much-delayed Heathrow pods are finally in service (or are they
technically still on trial?). Anyone here tried them yet?

Are they free, and don't require an airline ticket? If so I'll try
them out next time I'm at the airport.

Yes, they just run from T5 to the business car park. As the journey only
takes five minutes, you should be able to fit in a return journey in 15
mins or so. My next trip to T5 is in less than three weeks, so I'll see
if I can have a trip after checking in. Of course, sod's law says
they'll be bustituted on that day...

[Basil Jet]

Post by Recliner
I've not noticed anything posted here, but it looks like the
much-delayed Heathrow pods are finally in service (or are they
technically still on trial?). Anyone here tried them yet?
http://youtu.be/8NCnvBS2SME It looks like a rather slow
and bumpy ride, but still better than the previous bus, and the views
http://youtu.be/pZ1cQVMm2rA
I notice they have right-hand running, despite being from a UK company.
This initial system isn't exactly ambitious, with very few stops (I
think two in the car park, and one at the terminal).

Has anyone shagged in them yet?

[Paul Corfield]

On Sun, 26 Jun 2011 18:21:17 +0100, Basil Jet
<***@journeyflow.spamspam.com> wrote:

[prt pods]

Post by Basil Jet
Has anyone shagged in them yet?

<LOL> ! do they initiate the half an inch [1] high club if they do?

[1] or however high off the ground these things get.

[Mizter T]

I've not noticed anything posted here, but it looks like the much-delayed
Heathrow pods are finally in service (or are they technically still on
trial?). Anyone here tried them yet?

I began a thread which mentioned the start of the three week confidence
trials back in mid-April, but it didn't really get picked up on:
http://groups.google.com/group/uk.transport.london/browse_frm/thread/8d7273d1bdedaad2/

I've been down past that way twice in the past couple of months and seen
them running. Apparently there's no check as to whether someone's actually
parked in the biz car park before they can use the system. (I suppose that
might not always be the case, so perhaps now might be a good time to sate
one's curiosity...)

http://youtu.be/8NCnvBS2SME It looks like a rather slow
and bumpy ride, but still better than the previous bus, and the views are
http://youtu.be/pZ1cQVMm2rA
I notice they have right-hand running, despite being from a UK company.
This initial system isn't exactly ambitious, with very few stops (I think
two in the car park, and one at the terminal).

One could say that making it all actually work at practice is ambitious
enough for now - after all it is I think the first 'true' PRT system. I've
come across the notion that some of the earlier development ideas proposed
running the system running through the small side tunnels (or at least one
of them) which provide access to the central terminal area.

[Paul Terry]

In message <iu8e16$opt$***@dont-email.me>, Mizter T <***@gmail.com>
writes

I've come across the notion that some of the earlier development ideas
proposed running the system running through the small side tunnels (or
at least one of them) which provide access to the central terminal area.

I think that's still the intention if the network proves successful
enough to extend to the other terminals.

[Roland Perry]

I've come across the notion that some of the earlier development ideas
proposed running the system running through the small side tunnels (or
at least one of them) which provide access to the central terminal area.

It's much more than that - they've used the promise of a large pod
installation through the old cab tunnels to justify various expansion
plans within the T123 complex.

The T5 installation is supposed to be the pilot.

[h***@yahoo.co.uk]

Post by Recliner
I've not noticed anything posted here, but it looks like the
much-delayed Heathrow pods are finally in service (or are they
technically still on trial?). Anyone here tried them yet?
http://youtu.be/8NCnvBS2SME It looks like a rather slow
and bumpy ride, but still better than the previous bus, and the views
http://youtu.be/pZ1cQVMm2rA
I notice they have right-hand running, despite being from a UK company.
This initial system isn't exactly ambitious, with very few stops (I
think two in the car park, and one at the terminal).

I heard a rumour here a while ago that they plan to have staff on site
for about a month after the PRT's start up to keep gawkers away.

[Bruce]

Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk

Post by Recliner
I've not noticed anything posted here, but it looks like the
much-delayed Heathrow pods are finally in service (or are they
technically still on trial?). Anyone here tried them yet?
http://youtu.be/8NCnvBS2SME It looks like a rather slow
and bumpy ride, but still better than the previous bus, and the views
http://youtu.be/pZ1cQVMm2rA
I notice they have right-hand running, despite being from a UK company.
This initial system isn't exactly ambitious, with very few stops (I
think two in the car park, and one at the terminal).

I heard a rumour here a while ago that they plan to have staff on site
for about a month after the PRT's start up to keep gawkers away.

I used the pods twice during the last week as I parked my car at T5
Business Car Park for a trip to Paris. They are quite a bit more
professional than I expected, with high quality finishes inside and
out. With a couple of reservations, they work well enough.

My reservations are (1) that headroom is poor - I'm 5' 10" tall and
had to duck to enter and leave the pod, which was inconvenient with
two bags (one cabin, one checked) - and (2) that the ride quality is
atrocious.

I could probably tolerate the lack of headroom. Once seated, it isn't
a problem. But the ride is desperately uncomfortable, with sharp,
undamped vertical shocks which are probably down to the small diameter
wheels and thin, solid rubber "tyres".

The design asks far too much of a primitive suspension system to soak
up the shocks that would normally be absorbed by the sidewalls of
pneumatic tyres. Well, they aren't pneumatic and they have no
sidewalls, so it is all left to suspension that is too sharply sprung
and has too little travel.

Of course the track is also part of the problem. If it had been
constructed to higher standards (a more even surface) there might have
been the chance of a smoother ride.

I'm unlikely to use the pods again as my future flights to Paris will
be to Orly Airport rather than Charles de Gaulle, so I will be flying
from London City instead. Orly is more convenient for where my
clients are based.

But if I should ever use Terminal 5 to fly to other destinations, I
will be sure to avoid the Business Car Park and the pods with the
appalling ride. A good idea let down by poor attention to a very
important detail.

If anyone wants to try the pods for themselves, there appeared to be
no restrictions on their use. There was no need to have parked in the
T5 Business Car Park.

You just get in a pod and go. There is a choice of two stations (A
and B) in the Business Car Park and just one in the terminal at the
north end of the short stay car park at T5, on Level 2.

[Recliner]

Post by Bruce

Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk

Post by Recliner
I've not noticed anything posted here, but it looks like the
much-delayed Heathrow pods are finally in service (or are they
technically still on trial?). Anyone here tried them yet?
http://youtu.be/8NCnvBS2SME It looks like a rather
slow and bumpy ride, but still better than the previous bus, and
the views are good. You even get delays before journeys start, just
like the Tube: http://youtu.be/pZ1cQVMm2rA
I notice they have right-hand running, despite being from a UK
company. This initial system isn't exactly ambitious, with very few
stops (I think two in the car park, and one at the terminal).

I heard a rumour here a while ago that they plan to have staff on
site for about a month after the PRT's start up to keep gawkers away.

I used the pods twice during the last week as I parked my car at T5
Business Car Park for a trip to Paris. They are quite a bit more
professional than I expected, with high quality finishes inside and
out. With a couple of reservations, they work well enough.
My reservations are (1) that headroom is poor - I'm 5' 10" tall and
had to duck to enter and leave the pod, which was inconvenient with
two bags (one cabin, one checked) - and (2) that the ride quality is
atrocious.
I could probably tolerate the lack of headroom. Once seated, it isn't
a problem. But the ride is desperately uncomfortable, with sharp,
undamped vertical shocks which are probably down to the small diameter
wheels and thin, solid rubber "tyres".
The design asks far too much of a primitive suspension system to soak
up the shocks that would normally be absorbed by the sidewalls of
pneumatic tyres. Well, they aren't pneumatic and they have no
sidewalls, so it is all left to suspension that is too sharply sprung
and has too little travel.
Of course the track is also part of the problem. If it had been
constructed to higher standards (a more even surface) there might have
been the chance of a smoother ride.
I'm unlikely to use the pods again as my future flights to Paris will
be to Orly Airport rather than Charles de Gaulle, so I will be flying
from London City instead. Orly is more convenient for where my
clients are based.
But if I should ever use Terminal 5 to fly to other destinations, I
will be sure to avoid the Business Car Park and the pods with the
appalling ride. A good idea let down by poor attention to a very
important detail.
If anyone wants to try the pods for themselves, there appeared to be
no restrictions on their use. There was no need to have parked in the
T5 Business Car Park.
You just get in a pod and go. There is a choice of two stations (A
and B) in the Business Car Park and just one in the terminal at the
north end of the short stay car park at T5, on Level 2.

Yes, I've also now had a go in the pods. I hadn't parked at the airport,
but as you say, no-one monitors who's using the system (though it's a
bit tucked away at the terminal). As you say, the ride is a bit bumpy,
but it wouldn't put me off using them again -- it certainly beats the
bus. They have a suitably multi-lingual UI, and there's room for four
people plus bags -- maybe the ride is smoother when there's more load on
board?

[Bruce]

Post by Recliner
Yes, I've also now had a go in the pods. I hadn't parked at the airport,
but as you say, no-one monitors who's using the system (though it's a
bit tucked away at the terminal). As you say, the ride is a bit bumpy,
but it wouldn't put me off using them again -- it certainly beats the
bus. They have a suitably multi-lingual UI, and there's room for four
people plus bags -- maybe the ride is smoother when there's more load on
board?

Possibly. But the ride was atrocious - the worst I have ever
experienced on any mode of public transport - and there were two of us
on board, neither of us lightweights, with heavy baggage including
over 70 kg of photo gear alone. Total load was probably about the
same as four average adults. ;-)

Apart from the ride, I was very impressed. The whole system was far
more professional than I had expected.

In fact the whole T5 experience was a pleasure, which was a welcome
change from my recent experience of Heathrow. In contrast, Terminal
2A at Charles de Gaulle was simply horrible. Despite flying BA (the
national 'flag carrier') our flight was sent to a remote stand and we
were bussed to T2A. To add insult to injury, an incoming EasyJet
flight got an airbridge (JetWay if you prefer) and its low-fare
passengers had a very short walk into the terminal. :-(

A long climb up steep stairs followed (still carrying all the photo
gear we could take as cabin luggage, and with no lift or escalator
alternative) with a long wait for checked baggage and then the longest
of long walks to the RER station. It took 2hr 35min from landing to
getting on the train, most spent in and around a very ugly building.

The 45 minute train ride was comparative bliss. ;-)

I'm glad we travelled on a Sunday and stayed an extra night. We would
have missed our deadline had we been on the Monday morning flight.

[Recliner]

Post by Bruce

Post by Recliner
Yes, I've also now had a go in the pods. I hadn't parked at the
airport, but as you say, no-one monitors who's using the system
(though it's a bit tucked away at the terminal). As you say, the
ride is a bit bumpy, but it wouldn't put me off using them again --
it certainly beats the bus. They have a suitably multi-lingual UI,
and there's room for four people plus bags -- maybe the ride is
smoother when there's more load on board?

Possibly. But the ride was atrocious - the worst I have ever
experienced on any mode of public transport - and there were two of us
on board, neither of us lightweights, with heavy baggage including
over 70 kg of photo gear alone. Total load was probably about the
same as four average adults. ;-)
Apart from the ride, I was very impressed. The whole system was far
more professional than I had expected.
In fact the whole T5 experience was a pleasure, which was a welcome
change from my recent experience of Heathrow. In contrast, Terminal
2A at Charles de Gaulle was simply horrible. Despite flying BA (the
national 'flag carrier') our flight was sent to a remote stand and we
were bussed to T2A. To add insult to injury, an incoming EasyJet
flight got an airbridge (JetWay if you prefer) and its low-fare
passengers had a very short walk into the terminal. :-(
A long climb up steep stairs followed (still carrying all the photo
gear we could take as cabin luggage, and with no lift or escalator
alternative) with a long wait for checked baggage and then the longest
of long walks to the RER station. It took 2hr 35min from landing to
getting on the train, most spent in and around a very ugly building.
The 45 minute train ride was comparative bliss. ;-)
I'm glad we travelled on a Sunday and stayed an extra night. We would
have missed our deadline had we been on the Monday morning flight.

Agreed, Heathrow T5 is a pleasure to use, though as with any large
terminal, there can be a fair amount of walking to some gates. The
entire terminal is step-free, and that includes the HEx and Tube
stations. Like you, I actively dislike CDG, and T2 there is even worse
than the old T1 (though your experience seems to have been particularly
bad). I wonder why BA hasn't returned to T1 after the refurbishment?

One slightly annoying thing about LHR T5 is the way that it so blatantly
steers would be rail pax towards HEx rather than the Piccadilly Line.
They even have a sales person at the customs exit, and all the leaflets
are for HEx. The ticket office sells Oyster cards, but there's nothing
to tell would-be buyers about them. I also couldn't see any sign that
the machines would see Oyster cards. I recently advised a couple of
first-time visitors to London to ensure they bought Oyster cards and
took the Tube (ideal for their hotel), and the ticket office was quite
surprised to encounter tourists who knew to ask for them.

[b***@boltar.world]

On Mon, 1 Aug 2011 13:46:43 +0100

Post by Recliner

Post by Bruce
of long walks to the RER station. It took 2hr 35min from landing to
getting on the train, most spent in and around a very ugly building.
The 45 minute train ride was comparative bliss. ;-)
I'm glad we travelled on a Sunday and stayed an extra night. We would
have missed our deadline had we been on the Monday morning flight.

Agreed, Heathrow T5 is a pleasure to use, though as with any large
terminal, there can be a fair amount of walking to some gates. The
entire terminal is step-free, and that includes the HEx and Tube
stations. Like you, I actively dislike CDG, and T2 there is even worse
than the old T1 (though your experience seems to have been particularly
bad). I wonder why BA hasn't returned to T1 after the refurbishment?

You do realise that this is 2011 and theres a train that will take you
all the way from london to central paris? Why on earth would anyone fly there?

B2003

[Graeme Wall]

Post by b***@boltar.world
On Mon, 1 Aug 2011 13:46:43 +0100

Post by Recliner

Post by Bruce
of long walks to the RER station. It took 2hr 35min from landing to
getting on the train, most spent in and around a very ugly building.
The 45 minute train ride was comparative bliss. ;-)
I'm glad we travelled on a Sunday and stayed an extra night. We would
have missed our deadline had we been on the Monday morning flight.

Agreed, Heathrow T5 is a pleasure to use, though as with any large
terminal, there can be a fair amount of walking to some gates. The
entire terminal is step-free, and that includes the HEx and Tube
stations. Like you, I actively dislike CDG, and T2 there is even worse
than the old T1 (though your experience seems to have been particularly
bad). I wonder why BA hasn't returned to T1 after the refurbishment?

You do realise that this is 2011 and theres a train that will take you
all the way from london to central paris? Why on earth would anyone fly there?

To catch a connecting flight perhaps.

[b***@boltar.world]

On Mon, 01 Aug 2011 14:14:22 +0100

Post by b***@boltar.world

Post by b***@boltar.world
You do realise that this is 2011 and theres a train that will take you
all the way from london to central paris? Why on earth would anyone fly

there?
To catch a connecting flight perhaps.

The OP apparently caught an RER train. You wouldn't do that unless you were
going to paris itself.

B2003

[Graeme Wall]

Post by b***@boltar.world
On Mon, 01 Aug 2011 14:14:22 +0100

Post by b***@boltar.world

Post by b***@boltar.world
You do realise that this is 2011 and theres a train that will take you
all the way from london to central paris? Why on earth would anyone fly

there?
To catch a connecting flight perhaps.

The OP apparently caught an RER train. You wouldn't do that unless you were
going to paris itself.

Depends on your trip arrangements and on your return trip. I've flown
out to South America via Paris and on the return had a few hours to kill
so took the RER into the centre of town to pass the time.

[b***@boltar.world]

On Mon, 01 Aug 2011 15:19:26 +0100

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by b***@boltar.world

Post by Graeme Wall
To catch a connecting flight perhaps.

The OP apparently caught an RER train. You wouldn't do that unless you were
going to paris itself.

Depends on your trip arrangements and on your return trip. I've flown
out to South America via Paris and on the return had a few hours to kill
so took the RER into the centre of town to pass the time.

Thats not how it read in his case. If you're going to take a 2nd rate form
of transport when a better option is available don't complain when it turns
out to be 2nd rate.

B2003

[Recliner]

Post by b***@boltar.world
On Mon, 1 Aug 2011 13:46:43 +0100

Post by Recliner

Post by Bruce
of long walks to the RER station. It took 2hr 35min from landing to
getting on the train, most spent in and around a very ugly building.
The 45 minute train ride was comparative bliss. ;-)
I'm glad we travelled on a Sunday and stayed an extra night. We
would have missed our deadline had we been on the Monday morning
flight.

Agreed, Heathrow T5 is a pleasure to use, though as with any large
terminal, there can be a fair amount of walking to some gates. The
entire terminal is step-free, and that includes the HEx and Tube
stations. Like you, I actively dislike CDG, and T2 there is even
worse than the old T1 (though your experience seems to have been
particularly bad). I wonder why BA hasn't returned to T1 after the
refurbishment?

You do realise that this is 2011 and theres a train that will take you
all the way from london to central paris? Why on earth would anyone fly there?

I can't speak for Bruce, but it so happens that for some people, LHR
(like other London airports) is more convenient than StP. And not
everyone wants to go to Gare du Nord. But, in general, it's true that
significantly more people use the train on that route than fly, though
about a quarter still do fly.

[Bruce]

Post by Recliner

Post by b***@boltar.world
On Mon, 1 Aug 2011 13:46:43 +0100

Post by Recliner

Post by Bruce
of long walks to the RER station. It took 2hr 35min from landing to
getting on the train, most spent in and around a very ugly building.
The 45 minute train ride was comparative bliss. ;-)
I'm glad we travelled on a Sunday and stayed an extra night. We
would have missed our deadline had we been on the Monday morning
flight.

Agreed, Heathrow T5 is a pleasure to use, though as with any large
terminal, there can be a fair amount of walking to some gates. The
entire terminal is step-free, and that includes the HEx and Tube
stations. Like you, I actively dislike CDG, and T2 there is even
worse than the old T1 (though your experience seems to have been
particularly bad). I wonder why BA hasn't returned to T1 after the
refurbishment?

You do realise that this is 2011 and theres a train that will take you
all the way from london to central paris? Why on earth would anyone fly there?

I can't speak for Bruce, but it so happens that for some people, LHR
(like other London airports) is more convenient than StP. And not
everyone wants to go to Gare du Nord. But, in general, it's true that
significantly more people use the train on that route than fly, though
about a quarter still do fly.

Last time I did this trip I used Eurostar. The previous time I flew
London City to Paris Orly. Next time I will probably drive. That's
because, when carrying a lot of heavy and valuable gear, there is
great benefit in using just one mode door-to-door.

Using Eurostar involves a taxi to the local station, Chiltern Railways
to Marylebone, taxi to St Pancras, Eurostar to Paris Nord and RER B to
my destination, then a walk of about 120m - six modes. Manhandling
heavy gear in and out of taxis and trains isn't fun, and having to do
it six times is exhausting. The least pleasant part of the journey is
at Paris Nord.

Flying to Orly is much better than Eurostar. Car to London City,
Lufthansa to Orly, OrlyVAL or OrlyBUS to RER B and then the short walk
at the end. Five modes, and unlike on Eurostar, someone else deals
with the heavy stuff.

I only chose CDG because I have an embarrassing surplus of frequent
flyer miles and it was good to use some. I doubt I will go that way
again. The worst bit was being bussed from a remote stand and facing
a tall and steep flight of stairs to get into the terminal. Was that
really 2011? More like 1961. But while the passengers of
full-service BA got the bus, the low-cost EasyJet passengers got an
airbridge. That added insult to injury. Also, the long walk from 2A
to the RER station was a major chore.

On the return journey I checked in early and had time for a meal and a
visit to CDG T1. It seems to have been allocated to one code-sharing
group of airlines - one that doesn't include BA. It appears to be a
much better designed terminal than T2 but was *very* crowded.

So for my next trip I'll take the car. Drive to Folkestone, then
Eurotunnel, then drive to our destination in Paris which is just off
the Peripherique*. There is a car park on site. One mode all the
way, and there is far less stress driving with people you know and
like rather than sharing up to six modes with strangers. Plus, the
baggage stays in the car from origin to destination.

Boltar won't understand. But that's Boltar. ;-)


(*yes, I know, should be Périphérique)

[b***@boltar.world]

On Mon, 01 Aug 2011 21:56:13 +0100

Post by Bruce
So for my next trip I'll take the car. Drive to Folkestone, then
Eurotunnel, then drive to our destination in Paris which is just off
the Peripherique*. There is a car park on site. One mode all the
way, and there is far less stress driving with people you know and
like rather than sharing up to six modes with strangers. Plus, the
baggage stays in the car from origin to destination.
Boltar won't understand. But that's Boltar. ;-)

Actually as far as taking the car goes I understand perfectly. The older
I get the less I can put up with the delays, bullshit excuses and endless
minor irritations you almost always get with public transport whatever form it
takes. Apart from a few visits to central paris I've only ever taken the car
to france.

B2003

[Neil Williams]

Post by b***@boltar.world
takes. Apart from a few visits to central paris I've only ever

taken the car

Post by b***@boltar.world
to france.

Driving in central Paris is fun ;)

Neil

[Bruce]

Post by b***@boltar.world

Post by b***@boltar.world
takes. Apart from a few visits to central paris I've only ever

taken the car

Post by b***@boltar.world
to france.

Driving in central Paris is fun ;)

I'm definitely not planning on doing that in my own car ... the
Périphérique will be bad enough! ;-)

Anyway, decision made. I booked Eurotunnel.

[b***@boltar.world]

On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 21:17:54 +0100

Post by Bruce

Post by b***@boltar.world

Post by b***@boltar.world
takes. Apart from a few visits to central paris I've only ever

taken the car

Post by b***@boltar.world
to france.

Driving in central Paris is fun ;)

I'm definitely not planning on doing that in my own car ... the
Périphérique will be bad enough! ;-)
Anyway, decision made. I booked Eurotunnel.

Having used eurotunnel more times than I can count I find it a mystery why
anyone would still bother with a ferry. Overall the ferry must take at least
2 hours longer to do the crossing if you take into account the longer boarding
time as well as journey time and once you're in france you have to navigate
your way out of Calais instead of being dropped right next to the autoroute as
per eurotunnel.

B2003

[Bruce]

Post by b***@boltar.world
On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 21:17:54 +0100

Post by Bruce
Anyway, decision made. I booked Eurotunnel.

Having used eurotunnel more times than I can count I find it a mystery why
anyone would still bother with a ferry. Overall the ferry must take at least
2 hours longer to do the crossing if you take into account the longer boarding
time as well as journey time and once you're in france you have to navigate
your way out of Calais instead of being dropped right next to the autoroute as
per eurotunnel.

I agree Eurotunnel is faster, but the ferry is more enjoyable. I like
the views and the fresh sea air, neither of which Eurotunnel offers.

Until recently, all my cross Channel trips have been for pleasure, so
time has not been of the essence and the ferry trip is part of the
pleasure.

My civil engineering career started in ports and harbours. Most of my
family were involved in maritime-related occupations and I was brought
up in a port city, but I live about as far from the sea as it is
possible to be in Britain. So I almost never turn down the chance for
a trip to the seaside and a ferry trip is something I particularly
enjoy, except of course in bad weather.

This time, though, it's for business and I want to shorten the journey
where possible, so it's Eurotunnel.

[Arthur Figgis]

Post by Bruce
My civil engineering career started in ports and harbours.

Building the Ark?

[Nick Leverton]

Post by Arthur Figgis

Post by Bruce
My civil engineering career started in ports and harbours.

Building the Ark?

Noah's special adviser ;-)

Nick

[Paul Terry]

In message <j1b0kv$8oq$***@speranza.aioe.org>, ***@boltar.world
writes

Post by b***@boltar.world
Having used eurotunnel more times than I can count I find it a mystery why
anyone would still bother with a ferry.

Getting a breath of seriously fresh air on deck makes a good break on
the long car journey and dining on Sea France while watching the sun go
down over the English Channel is a very pleasant experience on the
return trip. Also the ferry is usually significantly cheaper. But it
does take much longer, and there is a risk of cancellation when there is
fog or bad weather, of course.

Post by b***@boltar.world
and once you're in france you have to navigate your way out of Calais
instead of being dropped right next to the autoroute as per eurotunnel.

No, that's not a problem. There's a fast dual carriageway direct from
the port to the E15, which you join more than a mile closer to Paris
than when coming from Coquelles. It's actually a few minutes quicker
than coming from the Eurotunnel exit, although as the ferry takes so
much longer, that's not really an issue.

[David Walters]

Post by b***@boltar.world
Having used eurotunnel more times than I can count I find it a mystery why
anyone would still bother with a ferry. Overall the ferry must take at least
2 hours longer to do the crossing if you take into account the longer boarding
time as well as journey time

I'm going to be crossing with small children next week. They will have
been in the back of the car for a couple of hours on the way to Dover
and it is another couple of hours on the other side to our destination. A
break in the middle for them to run around is ideal. I'm also not in
a hurry.

Post by b***@boltar.world
and once you're in france you have to navigate
your way out of Calais instead of being dropped right next to the autoroute as
per eurotunnel.

The A/N216 goes right to the ferry port, no navigation required.

[b***@boltar.world]

On Wed, 3 Aug 2011 10:47:50 +0100

Post by David Walters
and it is another couple of hours on the other side to our destination. A
break in the middle for them to run around is ideal. I'm also not in
a hurry.

I suspect them running around isn't ideal for the other passengers but thats
another argument.

B2003

[David Walters]

Post by b***@boltar.world
On Wed, 3 Aug 2011 10:47:50 +0100

Post by David Walters
and it is another couple of hours on the other side to our destination. A
break in the middle for them to run around is ideal. I'm also not in
a hurry.

I suspect them running around isn't ideal for the other passengers but thats
another argument.

Depends where they do it. SeaFrance claim to have a Kids Zone and I shall
encourage my children to let of steam around there. If other passengers
aren't a fan of noisy children they will probably be in other bits of
the boat.

[Neil Williams]

Post by b***@boltar.world
Having used eurotunnel more times than I can count I find it a

mystery why

Post by b***@boltar.world
anyone would still bother with a ferry.

Because travel by ship is a very pleasurable experience.

Neil

[Paul Corfield]

Post by b***@boltar.world

Post by b***@boltar.world
Having used eurotunnel more times than I can count I find it a

mystery why

Post by b***@boltar.world
anyone would still bother with a ferry.

Because travel by ship is a very pleasurable experience.

It is?

<boggle>

Each to their own I suppose. I find it the most tedious form of travel
imaginable.

[Neil Williams]

On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 21:55:48 +0100, Paul Corfield

Post by Paul Corfield
<boggle>

Down to the individual I suppose. I wouldn't be interested in a
cruise, but I do find standing out on deck in the sea air (or
socialising in the bar) for a short crossing from Dover to Calais
quite pleasant and relaxing, compared with half that time in my car
in a garage on wheels.

Neil

[Basil Jet]

Post by Paul Corfield
<boggle>

Down to the individual I suppose. I wouldn't be interested in a cruise,
but I do find standing out on deck in the sea air (or socialising in the
bar) for a short crossing from Dover to Calais quite pleasant and
relaxing, compared with half that time in my car in a garage on wheels.

Never mind Calais, I sometimes go out of my way to use the Woolwich
ferry just to treat myself.

[Graeme Wall]

Post by Basil Jet

Post by Paul Corfield
<boggle>

Down to the individual I suppose. I wouldn't be interested in a cruise,
but I do find standing out on deck in the sea air (or socialising in the
bar) for a short crossing from Dover to Calais quite pleasant and
relaxing, compared with half that time in my car in a garage on wheels.

Never mind Calais, I sometimes go out of my way to use the Woolwich
ferry just to treat myself.

Sadly not working yesterday. One of the crew fell overboard and was
killed by the prop.

[Neil Williams]

On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 08:11:38 +0100, Basil Jet

Post by Basil Jet
Never mind Calais, I sometimes go out of my way to use the Woolwich
ferry just to treat myself.

Or the back of the Thames Clipper on the fast stretch towards Canary
Wharf. Hold on tight, lean out slightly and enjoy. (You're not
really meant to but they don't usually mind).

Neil

[Arthur Figgis]

Post by b***@boltar.world

Post by b***@boltar.world
Having used eurotunnel more times than I can count I find it a

mystery why

Post by b***@boltar.world
anyone would still bother with a ferry.

Because travel by ship is a very pleasurable experience.

Ever tried LD Lines from Portsmouth to La Havre, with skool kidz by the
hundred, slightly too few seats to be comfortable*, a bar which feels
like a large East Coast camp site crossed with a school yoof club, a
general air of slight grottiness, a failed door/gangway meaning you
can't get off on arrival...

* make sure you upgrade from the most basic option. It's worth the six
quid or whatever.

Admittedly Turku - Stockholm or sailing down the Croatian coast were
nice, and Harwich - Hoek is great, though the Dutch trains are a bit basic.

[Bruce]

Post by Arthur Figgis

Post by b***@boltar.world

Post by b***@boltar.world
Having used eurotunnel more times than I can count I find it a

mystery why

Post by b***@boltar.world
anyone would still bother with a ferry.

Because travel by ship is a very pleasurable experience.

Ever tried LD Lines from Portsmouth to La Havre, with skool kidz by the
hundred, slightly too few seats to be comfortable*, a bar which feels
like a large East Coast camp site crossed with a school yoof club, a
general air of slight grottiness, a failed door/gangway meaning you
can't get off on arrival...
* make sure you upgrade from the most basic option. It's worth the six
quid or whatever.

Doesn't that sum up most ferries? At least Dover-Calais doesn't take
long, and it's a welcome break from driving. A change is as good as a
rest, and I'm not sure the time spent cooped up in a Eurotunnel
shuttle vehicle would count as either.

I was tempted to book LD Lines Newhaven-Dieppe (they operate the
Transmanche Ferries concession on the former P&O route) but the
overall journey time was a little too long.

My best ferry journeys were on Condor Ferries from Portsmouth to the
Channel Islands. I did one trip to Jersey and one to Guernsey,
although the ferry called at St Peter Port, Guernsey, on its way to
and from Jersey. The cabins are spacious and very comfortable. The
food is good and quite reasonably priced. The ferry has effective
stabilisers for bad weather.

That route uses a traditional ferry boat, the 'Commodore Clipper', not
a high speed catamaran.

Loading Image...

[b***@boltar.world]

On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 22:55:39 +0100

Post by Bruce
My best ferry journeys were on Condor Ferries from Portsmouth to the
Channel Islands. I did one trip to Jersey and one to Guernsey,
although the ferry called at St Peter Port, Guernsey, on its way to
and from Jersey. The cabins are spacious and very comfortable. The
food is good and quite reasonably priced. The ferry has effective
stabilisers for bad weather.

The overnight to Santander is quite pleasant - not least because it saves
driving down the whole of france - but Brittany Ferries run what are
essentially cruise liners on that route that just happen to take vehicles
too. Recommended if you want to tour spain by car.

B2003

[Bruce]

Post by b***@boltar.world
On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 22:55:39 +0100

Post by Bruce
My best ferry journeys were on Condor Ferries from Portsmouth to the
Channel Islands. I did one trip to Jersey and one to Guernsey,
although the ferry called at St Peter Port, Guernsey, on its way to
and from Jersey. The cabins are spacious and very comfortable. The
food is good and quite reasonably priced. The ferry has effective
stabilisers for bad weather.

The overnight to Santander is quite pleasant - not least because it saves
driving down the whole of france - but Brittany Ferries run what are
essentially cruise liners on that route that just happen to take vehicles
too. Recommended if you want to tour spain by car.

Thanks, we are thinking about a trip to mainland Spain next year.

[b***@boltar.world]

On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 10:15:17 +0100

Post by Bruce

Post by b***@boltar.world
The overnight to Santander is quite pleasant - not least because it saves
driving down the whole of france - but Brittany Ferries run what are
essentially cruise liners on that route that just happen to take vehicles
too. Recommended if you want to tour spain by car.

Thanks, we are thinking about a trip to mainland Spain next year.

If you do take that route book a cabin, they're worth the extra money.
Its a long voyage and you don't want to be leaving all your stuff in
a lounge for 24 hours.

B2003

[Bruce]

Post by b***@boltar.world
On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 10:15:17 +0100

Post by Bruce

Post by b***@boltar.world
The overnight to Santander is quite pleasant - not least because it saves
driving down the whole of france - but Brittany Ferries run what are
essentially cruise liners on that route that just happen to take vehicles
too. Recommended if you want to tour spain by car.

Thanks, we are thinking about a trip to mainland Spain next year.

If you do take that route book a cabin, they're worth the extra money.
Its a long voyage and you don't want to be leaving all your stuff in
a lounge for 24 hours.

Thanks. Yes, a cabin is essential for such a long trip.

[Neil Williams]

Post by Bruce
Thanks. Yes, a cabin is essential for such a long trip.

It used to be BF policy that you had to book a cabin (or at least a
reclining seat) if any remained available. May still be. This
helped prevent there being people piled all over corridors etc
overnight, unlike Bari-Durres where the sleeping bags even came out!

Neil

[Bruce]

Post by Neil Williams

Post by Bruce
Thanks. Yes, a cabin is essential for such a long trip.

It used to be BF policy that you had to book a cabin (or at least a
reclining seat) if any remained available. May still be. This
helped prevent there being people piled all over corridors etc
overnight, unlike Bari-Durres where the sleeping bags even came out!

Thanks Neil. I've heard plenty of good reports about Brittany
Ferries.

We are planning a week (or possibly two) with friends around Valencia
then a week (or possibly two) exploring the north coast, at least in
part by metre gauge railway. Total three weeks.

[Neil Williams]

Post by Bruce
Thanks Neil. I've heard plenty of good reports about Brittany
Ferries.

It's been a good 15 years since I last used them, but they had that
civilised edge then ;)

Post by Bruce
We are planning a week (or possibly two) with friends around

Valencia

Post by Bruce
then a week (or possibly two) exploring the north coast, at least in
part by metre gauge railway. Total three weeks.

Sounds good - enjoy!

Neil

[Arthur Figgis]

Post by Neil Williams

Thanks Neil. I've heard plenty of good reports about Brittany
Ferries.

It's been a good 15 years since I last used them, but they had that
civilised edge then ;)

I found Portsmouth - Cherbourg on foot pretty good last summer. It was
probably the first time I've liked travelling on a high speed ship,
rather than felt it was "cheating".

[Bruce]

Post by Arthur Figgis

Post by Neil Williams

Thanks Neil. I've heard plenty of good reports about Brittany
Ferries.

It's been a good 15 years since I last used them, but they had that
civilised edge then ;)

I found Portsmouth - Cherbourg on foot pretty good last summer.

Wouldn't going by ferry have been more practical?

[b***@boltar.world]

On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 19:34:30 +0100

Post by Bruce
We are planning a week (or possibly two) with friends around Valencia
then a week (or possibly two) exploring the north coast, at least in
part by metre gauge railway. Total three weeks.

If you mean the Feve system be warned that while the electrified lines
seem to have good services the non electrified line west from Santander has
something like 2 or 3 trains a day according to the timetable. But we actually
stayed a few hundred metres from it and never saw or heard a single train
the entire week we were there.

B2003

[Arthur Figgis]

Post by b***@boltar.world
On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 19:34:30 +0100

Post by Bruce
We are planning a week (or possibly two) with friends around Valencia
then a week (or possibly two) exploring the north coast, at least in
part by metre gauge railway. Total three weeks.

If you mean the Feve system be warned that while the electrified lines
seem to have good services the non electrified line west from Santander has
something like 2 or 3 trains a day according to the timetable.

And the Bilbao to León service is even less intensive.

I did most of the FEVE long distance routes a few years ago, and it is
well worth it.

[Bruce]

Post by b***@boltar.world
On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 19:34:30 +0100

Post by Bruce
We are planning a week (or possibly two) with friends around Valencia
then a week (or possibly two) exploring the north coast, at least in
part by metre gauge railway. Total three weeks.

If you mean the Feve system be warned that while the electrified lines
seem to have good services the non electrified line west from Santander has
something like 2 or 3 trains a day according to the timetable. But we actually
stayed a few hundred metres from it and never saw or heard a single train
the entire week we were there.

Thanks for that advice. I was aware that FEVE had "metro" services
that were pretty intensive whereas the longer distance services were
less frequent. If we do this trip, we will be staying in 2 or 3
different places and travelling between them by either long distance
train or car, then exploring the local area using trains that are
hopefully fairly frequent. FEVE seems to have quite a big system.

[Neil Williams]

On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 22:04:01 +0100, Arthur Figgis

Post by Arthur Figgis
Admittedly Turku - Stockholm or sailing down the Croatian coast were
nice, and Harwich - Hoek is great, though the Dutch trains are a bit basic.

Sadly no longer possible, but the arrival in Hamburg up the Elbe was
worth getting up early for.

Neil

[Bruce]

Post by Neil Williams
On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 22:04:01 +0100, Arthur Figgis

Post by Arthur Figgis
Admittedly Turku - Stockholm or sailing down the Croatian coast

were

Post by Arthur Figgis
nice, and Harwich - Hoek is great, though the Dutch trains are a

bit basic.
Sadly no longer possible, but the arrival in Hamburg up the Elbe was
worth getting up early for.

Agreed. Sailing up the Elbe was a particular pleasure when the vessel
was the DFDS ferry MS "Winston Churchill". ;-)

Alas, that ship was broken up in 2004.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Neil Williams
travel by ship is a very pleasurable experience.

As ever, it depends on the ship, and the other passengers. I've had some
frightful trips (the worst for both was probably a Harwich-Zebrugge
ferry, which no longer runs).

[b***@boltar.world]

On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 22:43:53 +0200

Post by b***@boltar.world

Post by b***@boltar.world
Having used eurotunnel more times than I can count I find it a

mystery why

Post by b***@boltar.world
anyone would still bother with a ferry.

Because travel by ship is a very pleasurable experience.

It depends what ship. Dover-calais ferry full of screaming brats? Hmmm...
One advantage of eurotunnel is the little shits can't run up and down the
train.

B2003

[Neil Williams]

Post by b***@boltar.world
It depends what ship. Dover-calais ferry full of screaming brats? Hmmm...

Try the bar, normally they aren't in there.

Neil

[b***@boltar.world]

On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 19:09:01 +0200

Post by b***@boltar.world

Post by b***@boltar.world
It depends what ship. Dover-calais ferry full of screaming brats?

Hmmm...
Try the bar, normally they aren't in there.

I'll take your word for it but given how every other pub these days seems
to think its a great idea to allow kids in (whatever happened to the over
18s only rule?) to scream and make a bloody nuisance of themselves I
wonder how long that'll last?

B2003

[Bruce]

Post by b***@boltar.world
On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 19:09:01 +0200

Post by b***@boltar.world

Post by b***@boltar.world
It depends what ship. Dover-calais ferry full of screaming brats?

Hmmm...
Try the bar, normally they aren't in there.

I'll take your word for it but given how every other pub these days seems
to think its a great idea to allow kids in (whatever happened to the over
18s only rule?) to scream and make a bloody nuisance of themselves I
wonder how long that'll last?

You might find this useful:
http://www.beerandpub.com/industryArticle.aspx?articleId=80

[b***@boltar.world]

On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 20:09:05 +0100

Post by Bruce

Post by b***@boltar.world
I'll take your word for it but given how every other pub these days seems
to think its a great idea to allow kids in (whatever happened to the over
18s only rule?) to scream and make a bloody nuisance of themselves I
wonder how long that'll last?

http://www.beerandpub.com/industryArticle.aspx?articleId=80

"The Licensing Act 2003 swept away the vast majority of restrictions on
allowing children in pubs."

What a surprise - another Nu Labour fuck up.

B2003

[Bruce]

Post by b***@boltar.world
On Mon, 01 Aug 2011 21:56:13 +0100

Post by Bruce
So for my next trip I'll take the car. Drive to Folkestone, then
Eurotunnel, then drive to our destination in Paris which is just off
the Peripherique*. There is a car park on site. One mode all the
way, and there is far less stress driving with people you know and
like rather than sharing up to six modes with strangers. Plus, the
baggage stays in the car from origin to destination.
Boltar won't understand. But that's Boltar. ;-)

Actually as far as taking the car goes I understand perfectly. The older
I get the less I can put up with the delays, bullshit excuses and endless
minor irritations you almost always get with public transport whatever form it
takes.

Agreed. Plus, all these annoying things are many times worse when you
have heavy gear to carry and a fixed deadline to meet.

Post by b***@boltar.world
Apart from a few visits to central paris I've only ever taken the car
to france.

Same here. Apart from the radial routes from Paris, the trains are
generally poor compared to Britain's, so car is the sensible option.

[Mizter T]

Post by Recliner
[...]
One slightly annoying thing about LHR T5 is the way that it so blatantly
steers would be rail pax towards HEx rather than the Piccadilly Line. They
even have a sales person at the customs exit, and all the leaflets are for
HEx. The ticket office sells Oyster cards, but there's nothing to tell
would-be buyers about them. I also couldn't see any sign that the machines
would see Oyster cards. I recently advised a couple of first-time
visitors to London to ensure they bought Oyster cards and took the Tube
(ideal for their hotel), and the ticket office was quite surprised to
encounter tourists who knew to ask for them.

There are at least some 'proper' London Underground TVMs at T5, which of
course are equipped to deal with Oyster... here's a photo of one of them
(replete with an annoying semi-coherent caption):
<http://www.flickr.com/photos/anthonyfalla/3089867296/>

[Graeme Wall]

Post by Mizter T

Post by Recliner
[...]
One slightly annoying thing about LHR T5 is the way that it so
blatantly steers would be rail pax towards HEx rather than the
Piccadilly Line. They even have a sales person at the customs exit,
and all the leaflets are for HEx. The ticket office sells Oyster
cards, but there's nothing to tell would-be buyers about them. I also
couldn't see any sign that the machines would see Oyster cards. I
recently advised a couple of first-time visitors to London to ensure
they bought Oyster cards and took the Tube (ideal for their hotel),
and the ticket office was quite surprised to encounter tourists who
knew to ask for them.

There are at least some 'proper' London Underground TVMs at T5, which of
course are equipped to deal with Oyster... here's a photo of one of them
<http://www.flickr.com/photos/anthonyfalla/3089867296/>

What discount cards might one have for travelling on TfL?

[Roland Perry]

Post by Graeme Wall
What discount cards might one have for travelling on TfL?

Child photocard.

[Graeme Wall]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graeme Wall
What discount cards might one have for travelling on TfL?

Child photocard.

I would assume the machines at T5 are standard and would have the same
options as elsewhere on the system.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graeme Wall
What discount cards might one have for travelling on TfL?

Child photocard.

I would assume the machines at T5 are standard and would have the same
options as elsewhere on the system.

So you accept there are such discount cards... and so all we need to
find out is why the caption writer thinks the machine won't take them.
My dim recollection is that child tickets can only be purchased at a
ticket window.

[Graeme Wall]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graeme Wall
What discount cards might one have for travelling on TfL?

Child photocard.

I would assume the machines at T5 are standard and would have the same
options as elsewhere on the system.

So you accept there are such discount cards...

Did I ever say anything different or are you just trying to start a
fight again?

[Roland Perry]

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graeme Wall
What discount cards might one have for travelling on TfL?

Child photocard.

I would assume the machines at T5 are standard and would have the same
options as elsewhere on the system.

So you accept there are such discount cards...

Did I ever say anything different or are you just trying to start a
fight again?

Your question (first line above) implies you don't think there are any
such discounts. But nice try.

[Graeme Wall]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graeme Wall
What discount cards might one have for travelling on TfL?

Child photocard.

I would assume the machines at T5 are standard and would have the same
options as elsewhere on the system.

So you accept there are such discount cards...

Did I ever say anything different or are you just trying to start a
fight again?

Your question (first line above) implies you don't think there are any
such discounts. But nice try.

So you are trying to start a fight, thought so.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Graeme Wall
So you are trying to start a fight, thought so.

Trying to bring some closure to that aspect of your response. But your
reaction means I failed miserably.

Is it closed now, or are you going to fight on?

[Graeme Wall]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graeme Wall
So you are trying to start a fight, thought so.

Trying to bring some closure to that aspect of your response. But your
reaction means I failed miserably.
Is it closed now, or are you going to fight on?

Roland, stop fishing.